A short discussion on free will

D: As a presbyterian, my belief is that God is all-knowing because He had created this world with a predetermined future. In a sense, you still have free will and control over your actions, it's just that the outcomes have been predetermined.

Z: No, that can't be free will. If it is predetermined, then it means that I am forced by God to do what he "knows" I'll do next.

X: But having someone know that you would do something doesn't mean that you have no choice. Suppose you have a very good friend who knows that you would always buy coffee when you are eating at this place. So when you goes to this place, your friend already knows that you would buy coffee. If it turns out that you do buy coffee, does that mean that you have no choice? No! It's just that your good friend happens to know your preferences very well. Perhaps God just happens to know your preferences better?

Z: But God is the one who determines my preferences, and that leaves me with no free will, as He has manipulated all our actions and intentions! (But free will is the ability to choose what you prefer, no?)

D: What is manipulation? Suppose a girl scout tries to sell you a box of cookies for 10 bucks. You refuse, but she asks if you would donate $2 instead. Is this manipulation?

Z: No.

D: What if I tell you that actually, the girl scout actually has no intention of selling the cookies; she knows that if she does this, the likelihood of getting a $2 donation is higher than if she hadn't tried selling you the cookies in the first place.

Z: Yes, then it is manipulation.

D: What if, actually, the girl scout didn't know about this phenomenon; she was just following instructions from her leader, who happened to know about this phenomenon?

Z: Well, then I've been manipulated by the leader, but not by the scout.

X: What if the leader isn't sure if it works? Suppose it works in some cities and doesn't work in some. Does whether it is considered as "manipulation" depend on which city you happen to be in?

"EOCC fall in now."